5 thoughts on “Guest Post: Derrick Jensen Responds to John Stoltenberg”
And this is why men should sit down and shut up wrt radical feminism. One man speaking for a (dead) radfem woman, and another two arguing with him over it? You wouldn’t even have had to tell me this was written by a man, the first half was so obviously a product of one.
Just. Ugh.
There are some good points, but the whole thing is icky.
I started getting that feeling, freefromsexpozzies, when he said at the very beginning “As a fellow writer, I understand…” A “fellow writer”? A FELLOW writer? Well, right there women are excluded from this conversation. This is a GUY conversation. And it’s going to get a lot more attention than any radfem who has written about the Stlotenberg article, because a man is doing the writing. And that’s not good. I’m seeing other men cropping up and speaking for radfems, like Jonah Mix. There’s a way they are presented: “Men are saying this, so it’s important and dispositive.” Very dismaying.
“One man speaking for a (dead) radfem woman, and another two arguing with him over it?”
I understand this point, but I really don’t believe Jensen thinks that he has the right to speak for women.
This doesn’t sound like a man who is telling women what to do, or how they should think. However, it does sound strange for two men to be debating what a dead feminists might have thought, or would have said if she were alive today.
“It is not up to women to allow biological males into their most vulnerable spaces simply because those biological males have themselves been subordinated “like a woman” or for any reason other than that the women choose to. No means no, remember? And it is not up to women to allow any particular biological male into their political organizations because the biological male declares he is a woman or because the biological male has been subordinated “like a woman” or because the biological male perceives himself as having been wrongly “assigned male” or for any reason other than that the women choose to.”
I would just like to add that Andrea Dworkin was a great writer. One of my beloved writers, John Berger, has referred to her as “perhaps the most misrepresented writer in the western world.”
OUT of My Panties, Now!!! 
And this is why men should sit down and shut up wrt radical feminism. One man speaking for a (dead) radfem woman, and another two arguing with him over it? You wouldn’t even have had to tell me this was written by a man, the first half was so obviously a product of one.
Just. Ugh.
There are some good points, but the whole thing is icky.
I started getting that feeling, freefromsexpozzies, when he said at the very beginning “As a fellow writer, I understand…” A “fellow writer”? A FELLOW writer? Well, right there women are excluded from this conversation. This is a GUY conversation. And it’s going to get a lot more attention than any radfem who has written about the Stlotenberg article, because a man is doing the writing. And that’s not good. I’m seeing other men cropping up and speaking for radfems, like Jonah Mix. There’s a way they are presented: “Men are saying this, so it’s important and dispositive.” Very dismaying.
Awesome article by an incredible man…
“One man speaking for a (dead) radfem woman, and another two arguing with him over it?”
I understand this point, but I really don’t believe Jensen thinks that he has the right to speak for women.
This doesn’t sound like a man who is telling women what to do, or how they should think. However, it does sound strange for two men to be debating what a dead feminists might have thought, or would have said if she were alive today.
“It is not up to women to allow biological males into their most vulnerable spaces simply because those biological males have themselves been subordinated “like a woman” or for any reason other than that the women choose to. No means no, remember? And it is not up to women to allow any particular biological male into their political organizations because the biological male declares he is a woman or because the biological male has been subordinated “like a woman” or because the biological male perceives himself as having been wrongly “assigned male” or for any reason other than that the women choose to.”
Great article by Lierre Keith and Derrick Jensen,
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/21/55123/
I would just like to add that Andrea Dworkin was a great writer. One of my beloved writers, John Berger, has referred to her as “perhaps the most misrepresented writer in the western world.”